Chicago teachers have settled their contract and ended their strike, which lasted a week and a half. Although most states, including New York, allow collective bargaining by public employees such as teachers, New York and some other states prohibit public employees from going on strike. In other states, teachers are specifically forbidden to strike. Illinois allows teacher strikes, under certain conditions. Have you been following the Chicago strike and do you think it was justified? Do you think teachers and/or other public employees should be allowed to strike?

(89) comments

Idoknow
Idoknow

Union strikes were used in the past to control unsafe working conditions. When did teachers ever work in an unsafe environment? No,I don't think they should be allowed to strike and I haven't been paying attention to what ever it is they are glomming after now.

GPAT99
GPAT99

Really? You think teaching in Chicago does not constitute "unsafe working conditions"?

You would most likely get eaten alive in a classroom in this area... now imagine going to a classroom in inner city Chicago. It is not only dangerous, but an almost insurmountable challenge to overcome poverty, gangs, and violence to educate students.

Yeah who needs unions anymore... its not like corporations and big companies would think take away insurance benefits and retirement benefits from it employees just to make a few extra bucks so the CEOs can make more right? That's just crazy...

Ido, ETC.,

Tools of owner/managers used to destroy unions are making a comeback (See: Scott Walker, or Reagan & air traffic controllers, e.g.).

Once, strike breakers, lockouts, Pinkertons, payoffs & police prevented workers from unionization & collective bargaining. The few owners benefitted; the vast majority was subjected to wage slave misery & trapped in a ghetto. After lengthy & painful struggle workers won concessions that were of benefit to workers AND whether union or not. Gov't action aided workers (See: Wilson & Clayton Act, or FDR & Wagner Act, e.g.).

Today WORKERS making a only a living ATTACK THEIR FELLOW WORKERS & UNIONS (teacher vs taxpaying Joe 6-pk, e.g.). The richest Americans, further enabled by conservs. on the Sup. Court (Citizens United) pour millions into campaigns (most goes to GOP super pacs) to influence the worker vs. worker animosity to continue. Winners? Ruling plutocrats Losers? Workin' Joe 6-pks. Joe 6's GOP vote enables this!

billybobskiff
billybobskiff

We get it Boater is a liberal loon. Just as much PAC money goes to democrats as it does to republicans. Who do the rich hollywood elites support? the only person talking about tax cuts for the rich is the Obama propaganda machine. Romney wants to maintain the current tax rates not cut them further. MSNBC has rotted your brain.

Idoknow
Idoknow

GPAT, If you are that afraid find another profession. I think there are far more dangerous jobs than teaching.
Gee, I better look and see what Chicago teachers are trying to latch on to now.

Billb,

Until Aug., when Obama improved, Romney super pacs had a nearly 3-1 advantage in the $ race. Incorrect, & likely punishing yourself, & fellow Joe 6-pks as a result is what's required to continue enriching the few at the expense of masses.

How much more disparity is enough?

Repubs NOW wanna' CUT Mitt's taxes further That, claims the non-partisan Tax Policy Cntr. would RAISE taxes on the middle. More of the "pie" for the richest AUTOMATICALLY means LESS for the non - & ner'-gonna-be rich MAJORITY. Mitt's "compensation," 2010 was about 10 grand an hr. Many workers got less than 10 bucks an hr. Mitt ALSO got a $3,000,000 tax cut 2010 from the GOP (2003). What'd Joe 6-pk get? Clue: THE SHAFT... that Joe had GOP voted himself in 2000.

It is Joe's/you/yours privilege to become comparatively poorer. AND due in part GOP tax cuts since Reagan that is PRECISELY what you've done - to, NOT for, yourselves. You MUST ignore the FACTS to not at least realize this.

billybobskiff
billybobskiff

Boat this country has a spending problem not a revinue problem. If you want more revinue how bout we start with the 47% of Americans who pay No income tax. You want to talk about tax breaks for the rich how about tax breaks for everyone else. My wife when we met was a single mom with 2 kids making 14k a year. on foodstamps, wic, heap etc. her refund checks combined NYS and FED were 12k. how much was she paying in taxes Boat.

Around the nation, 100's of thousands of teachers have been cut in the past few yrs. During the past yr now reportedly, the richest 400 Americans increased their wealth by 13%. This increasing disparate trend was once moderated by fed tax policy less beneficial to the richest than were Reagan & Bush II.

Teachers make a living, the top 1% makes a fortune using the CORRUPTED-BY-$ system. W/ GOP tax policy a few've benefitted, COSTING the rest.

The candidates from either side will say/do whatever makes them more likely to win. We'd do better w/ basic understanding of econonomics AND a better appreciation of the record.

Want greater disparity, when the top1% OWNS 40% of the nation's net worth, & the bottom 60% (most of whom WORK) own 2%? IF so, vote GOP.

To believe the "job creators" are the wealthy ignores FACT/evidence. SPENDING, from WHATEVER source sustains employment. Broke Joe 6' inability to spend creates MORE UNemployment in a mkt econ.

Bilyb,

Read what YOU wrote below; you'll discover YOUR error. Romney, SPECIFICALLY, proposes a 20% tax cut for all on income, NOT as you state. (You refer that Mitt'd KEEP the Bush II tax cuts for high incomes that Obama'd NOT. OK?)

For a guy w/ a million taxable paying 20%, Mitt's cut would amt. to $40,000! The guy w/ median household income (50K) and paying 15%, the cut'd be $1,500. Mitt didn't claim ALL the deductions he could've for 2011 AND doesn't yet reveal other yrs. Perhaps (certainly!?) he doesn't want the Demos to point out the FACT that a workin' Joe 6-pk PAYS MORE % IN TOT. taxes than does the MITT-class.

Joe 6 pk labels me "loon," & worse. Yet, boat's VERY SPECIFIC & DOCUMENTED data goes totally unrefuted. Joes' live poorer for voting rich.

Joe's "talents" are limited to name calling & buyin' into errant distortion. Result: Joe digs his eco hole deep. The wealthy are delighted, & rely on Joe's ignorance to continue their plutocratic $ rule.

billybobskiff
billybobskiff

Boat it is you and your ilk who distort the facts. Romney and folks like him pay cap gains taxes on investment returns. The money they invest was aready taxed as income so in fact the rich are being taxed twice while 47% of americans pay no taxes at all. When Obummer lets the tax breaks expire child tax credit gets cut in half. and taxes will go up on everybody. so whos really gonna get hurt?

Idoknow
Idoknow

boater, You are right teachers do make a living but many of the children they teach come from families that don't. Do you think teachers concern themselves when lesser paid people struggle to keep a roof over their head because of the school tax burden. I don't think they or their union care as they keep demanding those increasing raises, benefits and pensions.

I wish we had charter schools and virtual classrooms
.
GPAT, Just think how less dangerous working conditions would be for teachers if there were virtual classrooms.

patcher
patcher

Hey boat, Mitt released his tax returns pal, read 'em and weep. Too bad you ran out of common sense because if you still had any, you'd question the price of gas, food, national dept, unemployment, socialistic redistribution theory, our crooked attorney general, the feds never ending printing of worthless dollars etc. etc., rather then supporting our useless "empty chair" want to be president. He sucks, be a man and admit that the teachers union are his biggest supporters. They give him millions and in turn his "stimulus package to education" is never about the kids but rather the hiring of un-needed teachers - the union needs them to support their habit of paying off the likes of Silver and "empty chair". It's like throwing corn down a rat hole to get rid of the rats.

Patch, ETC,

Ignorance shows w/ lottsa' company here.

GOP REDISTRIBUTION'S STILL ONGOING - TO THE WEALTIEST - BIG since Reagan! The richest 1% have DOUBLED + their "share" over the past 30 yrs. It's therefore automatic that shares to the rest on avg. decreased. NOW, their net worth shrinks too - & their prospects! The Romney class ain't worried about food & gas prices, etc! That's Joe 6-pks (your?) prob. - as is Joe's HIGHER tax culpability thanks to ineffective Demos, all-4-the-richest Repubs & IGNORANT JOE 6!

Median earners, w/ a tiny fraction of Mitt's 2010 income, typically PAY MORE OF A PORTION (%) in taxes, EVEN WHEN ONLY INC. TAXES ARE CONSIDERED. Most experience very limited & shrinking income. When ALL TAXES are considered, MANY pay SUBSTANTIALLY more as a portion (%) of their income than do the wealthy... the investment class.

MITT'S investment inc pays LESS TAX, FORCING WORKERS (you?) to pay MORE. You/yours self-destruct & define ignorance.

billybobskiff
billybobskiff

Boat your just never gonna get it continue to blame the rich aka job providers for your problems it will get you no where. Obamas a bust he has failed. Socialism will always fail.

IWILLNOTCOMPLY
IWILLNOTCOMPLY

One thing to remember is that when its time for teachers to either take a pay freeze and keep more working or take more money for themselves and loose teachers most will take the money. Teachers are the one percent of the area, look at all the benifits that we pay for that they enjoy and how many of you have the same? Most teachers in this area make as much or more than most two person working households in this area and in Chicago its even higher that that. They should have fired every one of the Chicago teachers, there are 10-1 waiting to take there jobs and even at lower salaries.
I"m going to give a lot of you some advice, make your point about any subject and don't bother with boar he is a troll on this website that likes to think he knows all. But any of you who are here often can see the truth. Again don't waste your time with him his job is to take you off subject, we can have great comments here with people who live in the real world.

5756917
5756917

You are so way off Boater it's ridiculous and shows how much you pay attention. Romney's plan is to reduce taxes for everyone rich and poor. However, before that he will be eliminating many of the deductions that are used by the rich. Thus they will have less deductions and pay MORE taxes. Romney will reduce the taxes on corporations as he should. The US has the highest corporate tax rate in the world, one of the reasons many corporations are not located in the US. Bad for the economy? Don't think so.

Idoknow
Idoknow

Boater thinks because someone is smart enough to make a lot of money they should have to share it with everyone else.
As for me, I don't think I should have to fund someone elses health care and pension just because I own a house.

Idoknow
Idoknow

Thank you,,,,,not complying. You said it all.

575,

The Romney tax cut plan emilates the decades old GOP plan - though Mitt's beginning to change the calculus to appear less beneficial for the wealthy. His 20% cut for all would mean a few hundred for the median household, 100's of thou for multi-millionaires - the same GOP philosophy that makes the wealthiest more so & Joe 6-pk poorer!

Workers, even welfare recipients, SPEND their money; that's what creates jobs. Romney-classers spend some, creating jobs particularly in the luxury sector, then invest (offshore often). The rich shop & live top-of-the-heap. Workin' Joe 6 sustains WalMart. Businesses that DON'T pass their taxes to customers, ain't around long usually.

In 2011, Mitt pd MORE than he had to - didn't take all his deductions. He pd 14.1%, of 13.7 mill. in fed inc. tax. Median Joe 6-pk (50k) oughta' check what he pd. It'll be MORE than 14.1% OFTEN! & Joe also pd MUCH HIGHER TAXES as a % of his income in FICA, sales, prop taxes, ETC!

Idon, ETC,

Boater "thinks" the outrageous, & often fraudulently based HUGE disparity between the richest & the rest in the US is deliberately & CORRUPTLY manipulated & by Repubs in particular (NOT EXCLUSIVELY) to to benefit , "...my base, the haves & the have mores."(G W Bush").

That, if true, needs be conspiculously supported by the aggregate data, not political claim of politicians from either side. AND, IT IS! "Conservative" pundits, themselves loaded, arguments continue teaching Joe 6-pk to love his relatively servile status. Foolishly, Joe treats these utterances as if some gospel truth. (THEY ARE ANYTHING BUT!). That damages the prospects of most to benefit the few most well off. That IS what's happened!

The US's CORRUPTED systems (pol & econ) DO JUST THAT. & not only is Joe 6-pk the VICTIM of less for himself, his shouts of GOP preference, dig his & his fellow's hole deeper.

All that's stake Joe is YOUR future, & that of your (once?) great nation.

W/ the world econ in depression post-1929 & spread from the US (Hawley-Smoot (protectionist) Tariff) & a product of GOP credit expansion & "trickle down" econ policy of the 20's, the US turned to FDR, & huge deficit spending to lessen the hardship for unemployed millions. That helped put food on the table. Germany turned to Hitler/NAZIS & a policy from extremist fascist conservatives. Hitler's actions crushed/silenced dissenters & provided jobs for war manufacturing giants, e.g.

Daily, his critics FAIL to cite WHERE boat's data/FACTS from reliable sources are incorrect - NOT 1. Their solution (Iwiln, e.g.) is don't listen to boat.

Wealth & income is LIMITED & Joe 6-pk wants better informed opposition silenced. It's Joe that condemns himself & his fellow Joes (the overwhelming majority) to greater hardship. Joe, like a too-passive German of 1933, digs his own, & fellow Joes' econ grave. Mitt's fine!

Here, Joe's "solution?" Shut up boat. Joe IS Joe's prob.

sevenkitties
sevenkitties

Teachers claim it's all about the kids, but they leave enough lines to read between to make it obvious that it's all about their pocket books.Granted, most kids don't want to learn to begin with and we blame the teachers. So, leave the 80% of kids behind that don't want to learn and classrooms can be more managable for teachers, and students will reap more benefits.

7 kits,

In capitalism, self-interest is a useful dynamic, an econ reality that's lacking in command economies - where what, how, & for whom eco questions are answered by gov't mandate (in "communism," e.g).

Self-seeking's bad for teachers & those horrid lowlife welfare recipients you describe who have, at best, a modicum slice or virtually no prospect of "success?" But, it's ok for the Romneys who were "womb drop" winners to begin w/, THEN, have the best-of-it-all growing up, THEN often inherit wealth & power (Trump? 65 million - ML Whitney? 100 million, e.g.) while the impoverished & lower classes suffer continuing hardship?

Joe 6-pk pays; Mitt's luxuriate in a system where you/yours are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT to bemoan welfare as is. But to ignore the $ RAPE of Workin' JOE 6, who pays HIGHER TAXES automatically so the GOP can & has lowered inheritance & other all-for-the-richest taxes is ABHORENT when the extent of this CORRUPTION'S considered. ISN'T IT?

7kit, Iwiln, OTHERS?,

Kit, you're also correct that many do not wish to learn. Sadly, e. g., Gene Robinson points out that households w/ 200k + income kids beat bottom household kids by 300 points on the SAT - a huge, BUT NOT SURPRISING DETAIL.

Iwilln suggests boat's a boar, a liar, changes subjects, and should not be lisitened to... among other things. Boat's view is that IWILN, SHOULD BE LISTENED TO. His offerings here demonstrate more than boat can, just how limited his ability is - & how eager he is to PROVE that. He succeeds in that.

NOTE e.g., that Iwiln continually cannot attack boat's points. That leaves the personal his only target. There he excells, but, as always, he's unable to refute a single point argued & often w/ source documented by boat in his many posts.

Iwiln's have lots of company, in the "I DISAGREE, Joe 6-pk crowd that's so self-destructive. Ignorance/inability isn't only a curse in school, Iwiln (aka, Joe 6-pk).

To TOO MANY!

Reading comments here makes me think I'm in northern MS, where educ & household incomes are the lowest in the nation, & the GOP'LL WIN. Here, whole towns are 20% below the nat income median ("TPS")!

Yet, the comparatively poorer Joe 6-pk's SCREAM for MORE of the abusive tax policy of a nat GOP that has RAISED their TOT tax bill, while the richest & their GOP'D continue MORE of the same med!

Taxpayers are NOW burdened w/ the non-insured as are the insured to cover 10's of millions uninsured. "O'care" was referenced by "TPS" editors as perhaps "... a win for the little guy for a change." Yet, POOR/MISINFORMED/DEAF Joe 6 hates O'care, can't wait to be rid of Obama. Keep crushing YOUR prospects w/ YOUR ignorance, Joe. They WILL in MS.

We've ENORMOUS spending AND revenue probs. Yes, gov't spending must be reduced. BUT, to bal. a budget w/ austerity will UNEMPLOY MILLIONS MORE... CRASH! The richest will be FINE, Joe, thanks to YOU! YOU shaft YOU!

Idoknow
Idoknow

Dear Dinghy1, I don't even follow your share the wealth ideas. I wish you would stay on the subject of striking teachers. Teachers work for us but they, on average make more money, and have better benefits than those of us that pay them. Our homes have become their piggy bank. I wish their union would bust.

IWILLNOTCOMPLY
IWILLNOTCOMPLY

IDOKNOW you hit the nail right on the head about boat, he claims nobody has disproved him and as anyone who reads these comments thats another one of his lies. Of course if he stayed on subject instead of going into his socialist rants everyone would see him for the fraud he is.Look at the teachers in Chicago, one of the highest paid and did they care about the kids-NOOOO! all they wanted was the money.Afew years ago a head of the national teachers union was heard on tape that the most important thing for teachers was power not the kids. Look how the teachers are fighting the grading system for them, its to cover the fact that there are teachers who should be fired or retire. Why should we continue to spend the amount of money on teachers who have not brought up the average or graduation rates. How many of you out there get to have great pay and benifits and if you don't do a good job get to have pay raises and keep your job? Not in the real world

idok, etc!,

Like most Joe 6-pks, you're BLINDED. Look at ALL the EVIDENCE - ALL of what's happ'nin', where it's goin'; WHY?

Whose suffering CONTINUES w/ the sys as is & in lg part's annointed by DC gov't.? Mill hand, teacher, clerk, etc., PUB & PVT SECTOR, UNION OR NON. FACT: WORKERS HAVE FOR YRS. BEEN VICTIMS OF LESS INCOME, LESS NET WORTH & HIGHER TOTAL TAXES.

Who's STILL doing well? FACT: THE INVESTMENT/ROMNEY CLASS - w/near record profits & HUGE GOP TAX CUTS (Bush II's e.g.)!

OVERTAXED, JOE 6 (Idokn, E.G.) sees all the way to the school, punishes teachers makin' a living - IGNORES the CORRUPTION of the merger between banker zillionaire & GOP, Norquist pledgers. JOE ELECTS HIS OWN EXECUTIONERS!

& NOW? Who's in line for more GUILLOTINES? WORKERS - TAXPAYER & TEACHER!; NOT THE ROMNEYS w/ the GOP. 1 must be blind to reality to not see this. There's a LIMITED SUPPLY OF ALL ECO GOODS (incl. $!).

KEEP SLICING SCHOOLS/WORKERS, JOE. GUESS WHO'S NEXT.


Idok, ETC!,

Taxes/DEBT also pd for Iraq (a mistake), bankER bailouts & billions in tax cuts 4 the richest. Your taxes/insur premiums pay for the uninsured med probs. W/ pvt ins, "admin cost" (salaries for HMO, CEO's & PROFITS to shareholders) in the fee-for-service sys, as much as 30% goes to that cost. O'care's a step in the right direction.

Those 700,000 fewer state & local employees provided educ & other services. & they SPENT income that buttressed OTHERS' JOBS/INCOME. Now fewer waitresses, & more on medicaid & other pgrms. On gov't? Less revenue, more obligation.

It ain't folks contributing to eco health that are your scourge - YOU are.

How'd congress deal w/ shortfalls? They gave less in fed aid to states, which passed cuts to schools. How's that dealt w/? CUT staff & services to students.

It ain't teachers holdin' your mortgaged future. Workers struggle & pay taxes, aristocrats invest. Joes' losin'; Mitts' WINNIN'! Want more? Vote Mitt/Doheny.

IWILLNOTCOMPLY
IWILLNOTCOMPLY

Oh boat strap in this is going to be fun, In 1000 characters you have outdone yourself for lies. Lets get started Irag- are we out or did we replace our troops with state dept. troops? Why don't you mention Afgan.? Oh thats right because its obama's war and the cost and death's are on his hands.
Banker bailouts yes they started under Bush but obama voted for them and doubled down on his watch. Lets not forget who was sucking up to wall street in 08, thats right its odumbo taking all that money from the bankers. And if you asked joe he would have said let them fail!, we are going to pay the price for it sometime. Who was it that bailed out GM and Chrysler? Obama did and it wasn't to keep their doors open it was to protect the unions and there contract's which if redone would have made them more profitable. $100,000 to put lug nutas on a car is alittle high. Ford managed to come out stronger that the other 2 and took not 1 penney from obama, lets also look at the billions lost to solar.

Idoknow
Idoknow

Boat, I do not care if someone else is rich. I don't need to be rich, I just want to be able to afford to eat and keep my home. What I have to pay public servants that "work for me" is breaking my bank. I can't afford them and I am not alone. This problem of finding affordable housing is not exclusive to homeowners either. Look at how much it costs to rent an apartment. When property taxes go up so do the rentals.
I bet you won't see any educators worrying about being able to afford food and housing. Speaking of food, there are record numbers of people receiving food stamps. Some people that receive food stamps also have jobs.
MY PROPERTY TAX IS TOO HIGH. We all know which group is taking the biggest cut. I hope their union gets outsourced to china with every last person belonging to it.

IWILLNOTCOMPLY
IWILLNOTCOMPLY

Next O'care and CEO's- First mr brain whats the % of profit for health ins. co.? Its not very high, last I heard its was 5-7% profit. O'care has solved nothing but be the biggest tax increase in history, it won't start until next year and its already 3 trillion in the hole. Thats what you get with big goverment socialism! Senior citizens pay attention the lies about Romney taking away medicare and SS are bull but under obama-care you won't need it because he is going to let you get any. There is no way you can put 30-40 million people and 20 million illegal aliens on o'care and not have rationing and price increase's it pure math and that means there will be no money for the old and there will be death panels. Obama has already taken 700billion from medicare and put into o'care, thats coming from your health care.

sevenkitties
sevenkitties

Yes, they are horrid welfare low life and that's being too kind. Most should be written off like the bad debt that they are and removed from society. First, they should crawl up and down the respective neighborhoods that they destroy and thank Americans for their existence. Most of generation(s) defiant/gimme/void are the most disgusting, disgraceful entities the universe has known since time began and should go right along with them. Get them out of our schools so that Americans can learn again. Take its offspring and turn it around toward the male and female things that generatted them and say if you don't think you have anything, this is why. It's finally time to stop rewarding bad behavior and a complete lack of values by taking back everything that these low life have been given.

IWILLNOTCOMPLY
IWILLNOTCOMPLY

Hey boat here's one even you can understand who pays for the public jobs- wrong its not the tooth fairy, its the private market that pays the bills. If you have 4-5 million people out of work since 08 and no jobs because of obama how do you expect to pay for teachers? While private workers are loding jobs and watching their retirement go to h____ the teachers have a plan that never loses money, thats right people if your IRA,401 or savings takes a hit thats too bad but if the teachers plan loses any money you have to make it up in tax's. They get to put maybe 40-70 thousand into their retirement plans and then they get back about 1-2 million. Don't forget the cheap health ins. and working only 9 months and the fact that one teacher make as much money as two working household family. When the private sector goes back to work there will be more money for teachers to be hired, so if the public sector wants to work vote for someone that will put jobs as high prioirty and thats not obama

IWILLNOTCOMPLY
IWILLNOTCOMPLY

BOAT I see your heart bleeds for the 1200 coal miners that lost their jobs because of obama and his policies. How about the whole comunities that will be destroyed because of this action from obama wanting to put the coal industry out of business. This is all his plan he mad clear in 08 when he said he would bankrupt the coal business and your energy bills will skyrocket in his words. How about the 50,000 jobs that would come from the keystone pipeline that he vetoed? How many public sector workers could keep their jobs if all these private sector workers have theirs. Its simple math boat try doing it sometime. If there is less private sector jobs there is less tax's for the local,state and Fed to pass around. This is the result of obama's failed policy's and when the Gov. tries to control everything and ruin's it.
And by the way only socialist believe that there is limited supply, thats why they want the goverment to control it all.

IWILLNOTCOMPLY
IWILLNOTCOMPLY

And last but not least boat people are not blaming teachers for there money problems its that people are sick and tired of teachers complaining how under paid and over worked they are. If teachers are not happy with the pay and work I have a simple solution for them LEAVE, QUIT, GO SOMEPLACE ELSE, FIND ANOTHER JOB its that easy. Teachers are making good money and benifits so maybe they should try and teach the kids, if they have great students they will grow up and make lots of money to help pay for their retirement.
As to you boat when you decide to leave fantasy island on the twlight zone and come back to the real world or stop smoking the basil you will see how wrong you have been all along. In your state of mind you think you are always right and nobody has proved you wrong, its OK we understand. So as long as you want to keep making a fool of yourself we will be here to assist you!!!!!

Idoknow
Idoknow

sevenkitties, I am guessing you are referring to the educators union. What you have written is a very apropos description of those people. It saddens me to see how our educators cling to their union in spite of what the children are losing.

Native
Native

Teaching is the single most important profession for the future of this country. All of the teacher bashing here is absurd. We should be paying them more, not less. I understand that entrenched and uninspiring tenured faculty are a problem but job security has to be understood as one of the benefits used to attract smart people to an otherwise underpaid and appreciated profession. Only by getting our best and brightest involved in the education of our youth will we begin to deal with the grim reality that without real educational excellence our country will decline as other nations continue to outpace us in the training of new scientists, engineers and other professionals.

Idoknow
Idoknow

Native, If you really believe what you wrote why don't you dump your union and fix ALL the problems. I am sure if educators cared about the children they would be doing something about the mess. Soooo, what are you peolple waiting for?

I don't think any of you are undercompensated considering what the average communities that you "work for" take home as paychecks. Aren't you fortunate that what you lost in your pension fund will be made up for you through property tax and wouldn't we all like to have your medical benefits.

IWILLNOTCOMPLY
IWILLNOTCOMPLY

OK Native We will give you teachers a 10% raise in pay and we will base your raise on your job performance. Now you will start paying 25% of your health insurance. You will also start paying 20% of your retirement plan and by the way you will pay that all your working life not the first 10 years or none at all like some district and you will work to your 62 before you can retire. We are also going to change the law so that if your pension fund loses money-TUFF LUCK the taxpayers are not making it up. Along with that pay raise you will be working 8 hour days and work 12 months of the year and you will report to work on snowy days. Lets not forget that the tenure law will be dropped and you will lose your job if you don't do well.
Still want to say teachers are under paid, this and more is what the working class people go thru day in and day out, maybe teachers should try and see what the people who pay your salary live with 12 months of the year. Try being thankful for the job you have.

Native
Native

I'm not opposed to dumping unions. The only reason that I think that tenure should stand is that teachers are not paid nearly enough given their responsibilities. In fact I think that tenure should be done away with if the pay structure is revised. There best way to deal with the educational crisis is to pay teachers way more, including performance pay. Our best and brightest are currently attracted to financial jobs. This is only natural given the free market nature of our economy. However the role of government is often to take the long view, to adopt positions that are not necessarily in step with the zeitgeist. Without high quality teachers, necessarily well compensated, we will continue our march toward becoming a second rate nation. Do you know by which measure the US currently leads the developed world? In defense spending and college dropouts.

Iwiln, ETC!,

Gov't action/inaction can be neutral - status quo preservation. It can move to benefit some... which AUTOMATICALLY must come at the expense of others not in a privileged group.

If, e.g., gov't reduces taxes pd by folks w/ relatively lower incomes or provides welfare to the poorest, the non-poor receive NO direct benefit & MUST PAY more taxes - deferred (borrowed) today. That's irrevocably true! MOREOVER, IT MATTERS NOT HOW MUCH IS RAISED IN TAXES WHEN CONSIDERING THE SIZE OF SHARES PD. - BY RICH V POORER, E.G.

CONVERSELY (& NOW REAL) IF gov't provides huge tax cuts to the wealthiest & a few 100 $'s to the poor, (exactly the case in DC since Reagan/Bush II/GOP tax cuts) the less well off are, when compared to the wealthy, MORE taxed (in debt). BENEFIT'S inured to the rich.

What's resulted? The poorer's SHARE of TOT. TAXES is up; the wealthy's SHARE'S DOWN.

Nationwide WORKIN' JOE 6-PKS BUSY nailin' teachers, unions & Obama; MITT'S BENEFITTIN'!

Native
Native

Iwillnotcomply, what makes you think I'm a teacher? Just someone who wants this country to be great again. The largest expansion of the middle class is US history, and a large part of what made this country great, was begun through the creation of a government program; the GI bill. Teaching is a special profession, a part of that grand tradition, and should be treated as such.

Idoknow
Idoknow

Native, First off, I do not think teachers are the best and brightest of our population. Any person of normal intellect that wants to teach and really likes children can be trained to teach ANY subject. Those people being attracted to the big money need not apply.
The best and brightest need to be our healthcare professionals and research scientists. The best and brightest are the people that can figure out the answers. Educators are trained to teach what is already known.

Native
Native

So we can just train anyone off the street to teach what is already known and expect to have quality scientists and researchers in a generation? How would that work? It wouldn't. We need high quality teachers to ensure that well educated people enter these important fields. You put garbage in, you get garbage out.

Idoknow
Idoknow

Native, I did not say "just anyone off the street" Please read again and comprehend!

Another thing to think about..........If educators are so smart, why are the schools struggling?

Native
Native

Your comment isn't too hard to comprehend. And I never suggested that educators were "so smart." I believe that they need to be smarter.

But tell me, do you truly believe that you can take "Any person of normal intellect" train them to be a teacher and still expect to produce great scientists and researchers? How would this work exactly? Currently the leaders in those fields are products of excellent universities, top public and private secondary schools and so on... Do you believe that their teachers were of "normal intellect?" Education is not about simply conveying information, if you believe that then it a shame that you were never exposed to excellent teaching.

IWILLNOTCOMPLY
IWILLNOTCOMPLY

Native if your not a teacher it does not change the context of my comments, I was showing how good the teachers have it and all we hear is that they think they should get more. When a teacher makes in 9 months what is takes alot of 2 person familes make in 12 months doing 2 jobs and sometimes 3 to make ends meet and then hear teachers complain hteir fed up. A lot of teachers in the area are problaby in the 60,000 range and when you add in benifits its close to 80,000+ and you want people to feel bad for them? Do they get to retire at 55 with 60% of their salary and pay no NY income tax and start a new job? Teachers do a very difficult job and it does take a special person to do it, but the people tring to stay above water and then hear teachers say they should get more are mad. Who are the teachers loyal to the people who pay their salary thru tax's or the kids they teach or is it the high and mighty union? If teachers are not happy with the pay and conditions- QUIT!!!!!

Idoknow
Idoknow

Native, You ARE having trouble understanding what I wrote. To become a good teacher, one must have a desire to teach and really care about children. Many people of average intellect are good teachers because this is what they want to do. Teaching is not something everyone is interested in doing. Someone continually panting after extra remunerations shouldn't be teaching primary or secondary education because their passions lie elsewhere.

The educators discussed in this article were not hired for higher education.

Dear Teachers,

The attack on you & fellow workers by & on your fellow workers over the past 4 yrs CONTINUES. As part of the WORKING CLASS (identifying by INCOME, not educ. level) the tax cuts, GOP & Reagan through Bush II reduced your relative purchasing power, increased your nat. indebtness AND WORKERS TOT TAXES as those GOP tax cuts went to the WEALTHIEST - STILL DO.

When THAT HAPPENED, the richest, particularly since the Bush II/GOP, 2003, your econ status deteriorated. Now, enough of your fellow workers BLAME YOU for their higher taxes; &, ignorant of a MUCH greater reality, they've a case. (See: Gov., Scott Walker, Wisc, OR Mitt on teacher union rights e.g. YOUR huge benefits are taxpayers' REAL prob; editors @ "TPS" have chimed in.)

TeacherS, kidS, WORKERS - all stripes, LOST/LOSE. Who WON this, NOT REMOTELY NEW, "CLASS WAR?" The hyper-rich GOP "base," the INVESTMENT CLASS, the wealthiest.

Disagree? Ok. But, AGGREGATE facts/data won't support you!

teacherbasher
teacherbasher

Recently, a professional union went on strike because they felt that they deserved more money and better job stability. The company said no and that they will hire other people to do their jobs. The company thought that anybody could do what the union members did and that by hiring people like Billy Bob and Johnny John, the union would get scared and cave in to the company's demands. Actually, the people agreed with the company and thought the union members were greedy bastards and should not come back to work because any guy on the street could do their job.

After a few weeks of Billy Bob and Johnny John working, the company noticed that they were making a lot of mistakes. The people also noticed that many mistakes were being made and in fact, it actually cost the people millions of dollars. The people started to cry and beg the union members to come back. They realized that they were wrong and were sorry for being so judgmental. Welcome back NFL refs!

Idoknow
Idoknow

OK union members, have your way, us poor sob's will keep donating our homes and eating less and less so we can keep paying more and more in property taxes.

Forget about us worshipping anyone but god, I bet you think you deserve that too.

As for you boater I hope Romney wins because he will create layoffs among the public servant leach class.

Idoknow
Idoknow

Teacherbasher, Hummmmmn, isn't it special that you are allowed to use an expletive in your comments. Does it bother you that I wrote "anyone with a normal intellect can be trained to be a teacher, if that was their choice"?

Idono,

YOU'RE RIGHT. Mitt & Paul, Scott Walker, Boehner, McConnell, Doheney, GOP) WILL CONTINUE what the GOP has been doing for decades. (See Reagan & air traffic controllers, e.g., etc.) It's punished workers - rewarded the wealthiest!

It's the GOP that continues a decades-long enriching of the richest - their "base, the haves and the have-mores." (G W Bush, 2000) These few privileged WON the CLASS WAR, WHEN FACTS are considered. Too many Joe 6-pk WORKERS strangle themselves due their own ignorance.

E.g., Romney income 2010? ABOUT $10,000 an HR. Joe's out to hang those "rich" teachers - @ what, $40-50 an hr? Brilliant, Joe. Your GOP-dominated system raised CEO pay from 40X to 340X a worker's w/ your "conservative" preference in the past 30 yrs. & the sys rewarded the top 1% (last 30 yrs they DOUBLED + their share of LIMITED nat income). Teacher-worker & 6-pks PAID/STILL PAY so the richest can/DO prosper.

STILL, Joe slits HIS own & fellow JOES' throats!

Idono, Re your "hope."

Sounds like you've both a Joe 6-pk income & a Joe 6-pk mentality. These continue crushing you/yours.

YES, Mitt will add to teacher layoffs. They cripple ability to spend & pressure gov't unemployment coffers/revenue. Layoffs produce inability to SPEND. AND, lack of IS WHAT CREATES MORE LAYOFFS, ->,->! (Even Mitt, seeking voters in VA, admits that defense cuts will cost 100's of thousands of JOBS, e.g.!)

Joe 6-pk,. IS tax robbed - Mitt's class isn't. It's received HUGE GOP TAX CUTS & poor, ignorant Joe's (Idono's) payin' for those - AUTOMATICALLY. (ask "TPS," editors)!

Didja' notice over the past few yrs that teachers, kids & workers ARE HEAVILY damaged. More-a-that's comin' irrespective of NOV outcome! 1/2 are low income OR IN POVERTY NOW!

Bankers repo homes, cash bonus checks & fed income tax returns. Joe, (Idono), it's what you DON'T KNOW & refuse to learn that's killing your "Am. Dream" prospects! Just brilliant of you Joes!

Idoknow
Idoknow

Dinghy boy, The highest paying, most secure jobs are in public servant land. These people retire in their fifties. My too high property taxes support them.

Iwiln, ETC,

Re: earlier questions:

1) Pub health care's NOT for profit (Medicare, e.g.). "Admin costs" run 6ish % of cost. In US, pvt. insurers' costs run 20-30%. CEO's & profits are dandy! These are LIMITED by O'care, 15%. (But, the moneyed understand "creative accounting.")

2) A look at the CLEAR RECORD reveals that for 30 yrs the wealthiest have become WILDLY more so, the masses fall behind & are able to SPEND LESS. That's the job killer. NO REASON TO HIRE OR OPEN THE BUSINESS IF CUSTOMERS AIN'T BUYIN! I.e., it ain't the rich who create jobs. They spend little, invest lots (some's to convince Joe 6-pk we must have the wealthiest - job creators. Joe believes it. Socialists, progressives, big gov't are the prob. JOE'S WRONGLY INFORMED.

CORRUPTED by unchecked capitalism, Joes' increasingly OWN ONLY MORE POVERTY!

3) US mid-class was born outta' labor's struggle & worker-friendly gov't. Joe 6 decides to CONTINUE bashing WORKERS & yr after yr. IGNORANCE.

teacherbasher
teacherbasher

Idoknow: What explicative are you talking about? What you wrote does not bother me at all. Sure normal people can be teachers. I see it all the time. I see normal, crazy, stupid, smart people doing all kinds of jobs. I see smart people working at McDonalds and I yell at them if they mess up my order. I mean, every time I buy french fries I pay their salary. Oh, when I go to the gas station and buy a pack of gum, I yell at them too because I pay their salary with the ridiculous tax that I am being charged. But mostly, I yell at the uneducated, uninformed and jealous people who complain about everything. I'm sorry poor sobs are eating less and less but they can either get a better job or move. In fact, my taxes are paying their unemployment checks. Maybe those poor sobs should have saved more money, made better financial decisions or not own a home.

Does it bother you that I talk about people and don't know a thing about them? Isn't it easy to blame and generalize others?

Idoknow
Idoknow

Teacher, I don't yell at anyones bumbling because maybe it's the best they can do at the best job they can get.

When I buy from people it's by choice, when I pay taxes it's by force. I can't shop around for the best prices in taxes either. I don't expect YOU to understand this concept

Gee, I hope you are not a teacher if you don't know what an expletive is..

teacherbasher
teacherbasher

idoknow: I'm sorry. Please tell me what "expletive" I used in the previous post. I thought I knew what it meant, but maybe not.

Just to let you know, you are not forced to pay school taxes. You can move or not own a house. Even a simpleton like me knows that! One chooses to live in a certain area and one agrees to pay local taxes there. I didn't know people were forced to live and own a house in a certain area. I shopped around and saw that school taxes were a lot lower in Saratoga county than in Albany county. Maybe YOU DIDN'T KNOW different counties have different tax rates.

By the way, I am not a teacher. I chose a profession that pays more money with better benefits. Could I have been a teacher? Sure, but I was offered a better job and made a better financial decision.

What job do you have that made you so angry about money and taxes? Maybe you should look inside of yourself instead of blaming others about your problems.

Idoknow
Idoknow

basher, Expletive was the profane language you used in writing.

When I bought my house school taxes were reasonable everywhere. I have more than just myself to worry about. Owning and renting have both gone up because of the bloated property tax. Maybe I should take up residence in a tent and gather twigs for fire.

You must be a financial genius if you didn't lose retirement money in the economic downturn. The only people who had no worries when retirement funds dropped were public employees. They got theirs all paid back from property taxes.

I am not the blame for the greediness that is crushing our schools. Children are losing school programs and families are struggling to pay for the most basic needs. This makes me sad.

Idono, ETC!,

RIGHT, your prop taxes have skyrocketed! You're probably aware that gas prices have too, & that unemployment remains extremely high (& irrespective of next mos. outcome both are likely to remain distressed indefinately in spite of what we're told by the campaigns - BOTH of 'em)! Joe 6-pk JUMPS to assign blame to Obama & teachers. WHYS that WRONG?

UNFINANCED & unjust Iraq, SAME GOP tax cuts for the richest (Reagan -> Bush II's) & a Med drug benny MEANT less fed support for states. & STATES' CUTS were sent to LOCALS & nearly every state/school SUNK. Yr over yr the Joe 6/GOP ans? CUT JOBS, (workers!) That CAUSES more JOB LOSS & LESS GOV'T TAX REVENUES, exacerbating the #'s.

MITT ROMNEYS "PLAN?" MORE OF THE SAME! Hate unions (those represent WORKERS not RULERS). The RICHEST KEEP GOP TAX CUTS & BECOME MORE SO. YOU DO pay more taxes. Those RICHEST PAY LESS. That's FACT - irrefutable!

Vote GOP, JOE, Keep payin' for your shallow understanding.

teacherbasher
teacherbasher

idoknow: This is going to be my last response to you because talking to you is like talking to a wall.

1) Now that you have defined the word, please tell me the expletive that I used.

2) Where do you live and how much have your school taxes gone up since you bought the house. Please adjust for inflation with your response.

3) I actually did not lose my investments because I don't put all my eggs in one basket. I also saw the crash a few years back as an opportunity to buy a lot of cheap stocks. AIG was one of my best investments when it bottomed out around 30 cents. I bought a ton of that and look at the price now. $35.00.

4) You are actually to blame for the loss of school programs and struggling families. You see, there is a school budget vote every year and you accept the terms when it passes. You could just vote no.

5) I know you are not going to understand my opinion but God bless you and I hope you survive this harsh world caused by those greedy teachers.

Idoknow
Idoknow

boater I don't read much of what you write. THE UNION HELPED TO KEEP THIS WHOLE UNJUST GOVERNMENT IN MOTION!

Idono, ETC,

Head-in-sand approach from you. Typical Joe 6-pk.The RECORD: Unions & gov't friendly to WORKERS (NOT moneyed aristocrats) enabled escape from the GHETTO.

Now being GOP reversed is rise in mid-class INCOME. That created jobs & health of a mkt. based economy. A number of factors produce increasing poverty & greater concentration of wealth (FACT: Top 1% splits 40% of US wealth, bottom 60% share 2% w/ many in poverty.)

GOP solution to the broken econ? More tax cuts - Bush II, ROMNEY-STYLE) for the rich as the GOP & $ CORRUPTED SYSTEM NOW YIELDS.

Demo solution? Inadequate, ineffective - even complicit. Reasons to include: Too much ignorance from the electorate (Idono, e.g.).

Joe 6-pk solution? DROWN REASON/FACT (boats, e.g.) IGNORE A CLEAR RECORD. Believe that what brought us this misery will make it better. BETTER? Joe, it's FAR more likely you're only slittin' your own & your fellows' throats. Reasons? MANY, sadly including Joe's ignorance.


Idono, ETC!,

Apparently among the ever-so-many FACTS you & yours easily discard/ignore is the decades-long, & GOP driven DECLINE IN UNION INFLUENCE (e.g., see: Reagan & air traffic controllers.)

Income data varies little when plotted on a line graph. The rise of unions meant greater shares of a LIMITED nat income to these WORKING CLASS FOLKS. DECLINING shares for decades is reality for both union AND non-union WORKERS. Income/wealth gains went to the top. Ignoring these facts/trends bodes ill for the Joe 6-pk crowd. Mitts' are doing well.

The LAST thing the vast majority & the econ needs/needed was more tax cuts for the rich. See what the non-partisan Tax policy Cntr. concludes about Romney's tax cuts. Boat does NOT seek to have his word taken for anything he offers here unless there's evidence.

TAX CUTS for the rich, Joe, are pumpin' water into your sinking row boat - makin' sure their yachts stay dry. Evidence? OVERWHELMING! (See editors @ "TPS," e.g)

Idoknow
Idoknow

The biggest money drain in this country is the public servants latching onto tax dollars and spending that money frivolously. As they collect taxes their pay and packages bloat.

I dono, ETC.,

Those pub servants SPENDING their MODEST compensation ADDS JOBS in the pvt sector - NOT as Joe 6-pk believes... that the rich provide the jobs. (Though the rich do spend some of their GOP less taxed incomes. E.g., they buy luxury goods & businesses that cater to the rich do well.

Mitt spends, e.g., on an elevator for his cars. That provides JOBS for an elevator manufacturer. IF typical, Mitt's $ goes overwhelmingly to the owners of the elevator concern. They make lots, their workers get comparatively little & are, like other WORKERS, OVERTAXED & Mitt's class keeps GOP tax cuts... 1's MITT PROMISES TO PROTECT/EXTEND.

This is PRECISELY what's been happ'nin/TRENDING since Reagan. The DATA PROVES that & conclusively! (see: Tax Policy Cntr.)

Mitt argues he doesn't like gov't. picking winners & losers passes comprehension. GOV'T HAS PICKED HIM & HIS. Complicit Demos FAIL to make that clear - indicative of the corruption by & for BIG $. Joe 6-pk? POORER!

Idoknow
Idoknow

boater, America is supposed to run on a free enterprise system. People that worked hard and saved money used to be able to put themselves into a business. Now if we are able to save money and get a business going, we are lucky. What we dole out in taxes makes it difficult to have money left.
I'm happy for a person that is able to start and run a business. I am happy for them if they have success. I don't think they should be forced to subsidize my standard of living unless I earn it. If my boss is cheap with my paycheck I will figure out ways to survive and save money. I could even get another job and work part time. My boss probably got where he is by hard work.
What we're forced to pay public servants makes it hard for private citizens to afford basic necessities. In the world we live in now, you are more likely to survive if you procure a state/federal job, or become a movie star.
We hired all these public servants and we can't afford them. Virtual classrooms are coming!

IWILLNOTCOMPLY
IWILLNOTCOMPLY

Boat your ignorance has no limit-Your limited knowledge shows tru big time in regard to trickle down. Lets see if you get this one (TRY HARD) Evil rich guys like John Kerry buy a $10 million dollar yacht that they dock in Road Island to avoid paying tax's in Mass. cause a trickle down affect. Who builds the yacht- workers, you need woodworkers, electricans, plumbers,painters and about a dozen more people to build that 1 yacht. Now where does the wood come from, the paint, the plumbing fixtures, lights, furniture and down the line of all the things needed to finish the boat form suppliers. Then someone has to build all the stuff to sell and tree's cut down for the wood, then the loggers to haul the wood. How about the food truck that goes to the workers at the yacht plant and down the line of all the goods he needs.Now unless u are a chowder head u can see from that 1 yacht how many jobs trickle down and all the money spent and that goes fro Romney's elevator too. STOP THE LIES!!!!!!!

AMERICA IS RUN BY AN ELITE OF A FEW HANDFULS OF THE WEALTHIEST WHOSE INTEREST IS ASSURING ITS DOMINANCE OVER ITS POLICY & PEOPLE. It's you/yours who ignore data/reality that prove that. For it to continue further entrenchment requires cooperation of the electorate (JOE 6-pks!) in this plutocracy. You/yours make it possible!

RIGHT! WORKERS ARE OVERTAXED. In no small part, that happened BECAUSE GOP tax cuts for the Romney class AUTOMATICALLY raised Joe 6-pk TOT. taxes (see K. Tingley, e.g.)

The primary reason the free mkt. economy & businesses fail is a LACK of CUSTOMERS. LESSENED DEMAND MEANS LESS PRODUCTION & FEWER JOBS. (KEYNES WAS CORRECT - REAGANOMICS? MORE TRICKLE DOWN 1920'S - & all for the rich.

Isolated examples of you, me or John Kerry prove ZERO. Look at aggregates. JOE'S POORER; ROMNEY'S RICHER... ALL CONSIDERED. (But, Kerry's yacht? Big $ - & tax cuts for the Rhode Island yard OWNERS... relative pittance, higher taxes for the rest if typical.)

Iwiln, (w/ apology),

I see your "knowledge" of yachts matches well w/ your English skills, (mine too)... they ain't great.

But your understanding of economics is worse - right outta' the rightwing playbook of the conservative, GOP (Voodoo) of the Art Laffers (Reaganomics).

The restoration of the pre-crash economy depends on the VERY UNLIKELY return of BUYING POWER - SPENDING. What's choking the employment #'s is lack of spending. That lack squeezes business, still profitable today by cutting costs... I.E. WORKERS. Cut workers, in turn, have LESS to spend causing more layoffs AND still less spending. AND, due GOP tax cuts, workers TOT taxes have gone up.

If people (Joe 6-pks) better understood that simple reality of mkt economies better, there would be far fewer nat. GOP voters (though Demos ain't proven much better re: ACTION there).

Teachers, truckers, & Joe 6-pks take hits. Romney's? They score HUGE $, AND GOP tax cuts.

What needs changing is JOE 6!

Idoknow
Idoknow

Boater, The people you are ranting about are all public servants. Democrats and republicans are the same animal. Don't you understand that we have too many of them filling their pockets and the pockets of their friends?

What is it you want to happen? You want obama again? Can't you see he is not on fire about the job? He sees how much work it is. He was so tired that he went back to bed after hearing about the murders in benghazi.

You do a lot of complaining but you never seem to offer solutions. My solution is that we find a way to cut back on what we are forced to pay ALL people that live off tax dollars.

Idon, ETC.,

This IS a 4th yr of aggregate cuts to pub payrolls. Next will likely be a 5th, -> due ALL forces at work.

We've an 11th yr of Bush II/GOP tax cuts for the wealthiest & a 3rd decade GOP cuts that wildly favored the wealthiest, & in so doing FORCED higher TOT taxes on workers. That, in sum, IS PRECISELY WHAT'S HAPPENED & Romney'd continue.

Boat's solutions HAVE been suggested. (SEE: DAVID STOCKMAN PLAN). Gov't spending MUST reflect reality. CUT spending gradually - halt DEMO'S subsidy to those least capable of raising kids. RAISE taxes on those WHO'VE USED THE CORRUPTED-BY-BIG-$- SYSTEM TO ENHANCE THEIR WEALTH & CONTROL!

Prob #1? Joe 6-pk ignorance! E.g., Joe doesn't grasp that HIS GOP preference destroys his prospects/raises HIS TOT taxes . He doesn't understand the destruction of mid class aggregate spending CREATES GREATER UNEMPLOYMENT, or that Obama didn't create probs that ain't gonna' get fixed in a next 4 irrespective of election results!

IWILLNOTCOMPLY
IWILLNOTCOMPLY

RAISE taxes on those WHO'VE USED THE CORRUPTED-BY-BIG-$- SYSTEM TO ENHANCE THEIR WEALTH & CONTROL!
Go for it boat that will get rid of 80% of the democrats!

Idoknow
Idoknow

David Stockman has a history of defrauding investors, I CAN"T GO THERE.....Are you also saying to quit helping the poor if they are not good at parenting?

My solution is easy to understand, NO RAISES FOR ALREADY OVERPAID PUBLIC SERVANTS (all) and LAY OFF THE ONES THAT ARE NOT ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL. I also favor flat tax.

You dear boater, don't get it. We must look for the most decent, respectable man to lead us from our looming disaster. This means someone that has shown himself to have always taken the high road. Obama was arrogant and disrespectful to Hilary Clinton and many other people over the past 5 years, when he wanted the nomination.
I cannot align myself with any political party given my ideals.

Idono,

Stockman pd. millions in fines, was NOT convicted of fraud. So, as usual, & SPECIFICALLY, you're wrong in your, "... (he) has a history of fraud." (I'd not argue that he was absolved of all wrongdoing & would bet he spent millions more in his defense. If so, it's another TYPICAL example of how a CORRUPTED SYSTEM favors the wealthiest & crushes Joe 6-pk who THEN foolishly & STILL unknowingly volunteers, even argues for more punishment FROM HIS GOP like a frat pledge gettin' the paddle, ("May I have another, sir.")

YES, I'VE BEEN CLEAR THAT SUBSIDY FOR THE UNQUALIFIED TO HAVE MORE KIDS IS A DEMOCRAT'S MISTAKE. It traps most newborns in POVERTY & saddles taxpayer (Joe 6-pk in particular) w/ HUGE COSTS.

Worse & especially in these times, to advocate, as Romney/Ryan do, for more tax cuts for the wealthiest IS INSANITY. These richest from either party benefit while Workin' Joes' stuck w/ what JOES' GOP'S DONE - HIGHER TOT TAXES & declining worth & income.

Idoknow
Idoknow

The justice department has been very affective in securing settlements in this type of case. Stockman was not walking in the park and taking his first ride on the merry-go-round.

Your morals are under suspect if you think our government should decide who's allowed to propagate. Are you from china?

Your ideas make it hard for me to take you serious.

Idono,

When subsidy happens from any source for any thing, the result is invariably more of it. It's idiocy to believe we're "created equal." (Mitt was way past equal at birth, e.g., not Obama). Since there's more than ample evidence that some people are not up to the task/responsibility to raise kids, it's senseless for gov't policy that promotes more unqualified folks to have MORE kids.

Yet, especially since LBJ, that's what's happ'nin. It's mistaken; it's immoral that most of the offspring are/will be trapped in poverty. The data clearly demonstrate that; AND it's DEMOS that are responsible.

The data also CLEARLY shows that the GOP has continually engineered massive TAX CUTS for ONLY the richest; Mitt promises to continue that. What that subsidy/SPENDING has produced is, a) higher total taxes for the non-rich (workers) b) greater disparity between richest & the rest, c) greater nat. debt burden, d) greater unemployment, & e) more trapped in poverty.

Native
Native

Alright, this discussion has become completely inane. But I thought I'd post one more thing because the anti education rhetoric is terrifying. Without once again becoming first (or at least above 25th) in the developed world in SOME aspect of primary education, we as a nation will continue to decline. I would love a conversation about how we can improve schools but the tenor the discussion seems to be focused on how we can reduce the cost of "educating" students. If we don't lead in education we will soon be far behind in everything else. Period.

IWILLNOTCOMPLY
IWILLNOTCOMPLY

Native your are correct in your last sentence! So explain to me how you have teachers make very good paychecks, have great retirement plans that they play almost nothing for, pay very little for healthcare and work only 9 months a year. So you would think that teachers would be happy with their jobs. Why with all the teachers with masters degrees are test scores still bad and drop out rates are still high? Now I don't put all the blame on teachers, the kids are being taught to pass certain tests like ELA and what happens when you teach for only a test? Kids are not being taught to think anymore and were not bringing out the best of kids we are teaching them to take some tests nothing else. We need the dept. of ed closed and put the power back in the states and local boards, We need to get teachers to stop being union people and be teachers for the kids first and foremost, if all your in it for the money GET OUT. We more crap being taught in schools today and not enough EDUCATION!

Idoknow
Idoknow

I am tired of greed. I am tired of childrens programs being dropped. I am tired of children learning answers to tests and not taught reasons for answers. I am tired of my taxes going up every year in spite of the failures in the education system. I am tired of all the greedy public servant groups.

Remember what we were discussing? IT WAS EDUCATORS STRIKING TO BANKRUPT SCHOOLS EVEN MORE! This is greed in the most blatant form.

Idon, ETC!,

You/yours prob is that you FAIL to comprehend full the EXTENT of SYSTEMIC GREED, or what it in fact even HAS PRODUCED. E.g., the top 1% (0 teachers) grabs 25% of GDP THEN GETS TAX CUTS FROM THE GOP, that Joe 6-pk - to his own demise, sent to DC! FACTS PROVE THAT.

There's only so much; eco goods/income's LIMITED.

Teachers, & workers, pub AND pvt, make a living - SPEND most income, & in so doing, CREATE JOBS for others. They're "greed" nets them a RELATIVE PITTANCE in this society - worker typical - while the ruling "investment class" (see: Mitt R.) amass multi-millions, spend some, INVEST most & escape taxation, FORCING Joe 6-pk WORKERS to PAY HIGHER TOT. TAXES & have LESS to spend. That creates MORE unemployment.

This is a 4th yr. of much of a missinformed public attack on teachers (it'll continue) & 3 decades of enriching the few richest in a CORRRUPTED-BY-MONEY & FAILING SYSTEM.

NEED PROOF OF BOAT'S ACCURACY? He offers to buy the coffee.

Native,

You FOCUS on the issue w/ a reasoned approach. A shame more don't (myself included).

More tech can replace far more expensive labor (teachers). Short term that's a prob producing unemployment, BUT, it'll happen & needs to be gradual. Skills of individuals can be employed elsewhere. (E.g., over her hist., the US has gone from 90% farmer to less than 4%. That's freed folks to produce & enjoy other "stuff." (Though isolated examples prove 0, boat took a grad course ENTIRELY TAUGHT BY TECH (NO TEACHER except 1 meeting & in 1970! (Penn St.) Tech was rudimentary then.

1st END CORRUPTION of Wash. DC GOP redistribution of wealth to the TOP. It crushes workers!

Especially since a disproportionate share of ed dollars are spent on a few who statistically come from the LEAST advantaged (however defined) households to have/raise kids. It's PAST time for DEMOCRATS to SLOW (stop?) their subsidies for the least able to have & trap MORE kids in a life of misery.

Idoknow
Idoknow

boater, Public servants made all this corruption possible. I hope we get an honest public servant in the office of president. Maybe we can have trickle down honesty.

I think those "rich people" that get all the tax breaks got them with the help of a public service worker. Would you refuse help that saved you money, if it were legal??

OBAMA IS A LIER.....he covered for his friend eric holder that got all those people killed by passing out guns.

Idon, ETC.

re: exec privilege & G W Bush tax cuts

Clinton's probably the champ, claiming e.p. more than a dozen times in 8 yrs. G W Bush over 8 yrs used it 6 times, Obama 1 time to date. Demos, including Obama, were critical of G W.

You/yours complain about Obama w/out mention of G W. Typical of the right to distort or omit entirely the RECORD. Demos are guilty of critiques to score those vital pol points too.

Libyian tragedy emphasis ignores what happened that dragged this nation mistakenly into Iraq. Perspective's TOTALLY absent. Iraq's a deliberate & far more consequential tragedy that weakened the US.

SPECIFICALLY re: GOP/Bush tax cuts STILL w/ us. They accomplish/cause several things. 1st, they FORCE the non rich to pay higher tot. taxes. (see: "TPS") 2nd, they increase disparity between worker & investment classes. (DATA proves) 3rd, they leave LESS disposable income for workers to spend causing JOB LOSS. 4th, they dramatically INCREASE nat. debt.

Idon, ETC.

Again you're slaying the wrong dragon. Worker, TEACHER/pub servant,E.G., make a living, not fortunes of the investment class. (Obama's compensation's 400K. CEO'S, EVEN THOSE HEADING PVT. BANKS & w/ their deliberately FRAUDULENT loans score 10's of millions.

It's JOE 6- PK IGNORANCE that's chosen an all-for-the-rich DC GOP that grant tax cuts that've benefitted the rich & punished workers. It isn't the wealthy who struggle, have a prob w/ higher gas prices, foreclosure, etc. The wealthy invest (reverse mortgages, etc., to increase their share of wealth). IT'S CORRUPTION!

Joe continues to slay teachers/kids - & HIMSELF & the masses who do the suffering. (TRY: "PLUTOCRATS," a book demonstrating how the game's been won by a tiny fraction of the top 1% AND how that negatively impacts ALL the rest.) Then go back in your hole these hyper-rich have taught you/yours to promote digging deeper.

ROMNEY'S pro-super-rich. His "fix?" More G W Bush/GOP!

Idoknow
Idoknow

boater, At least "W" kept us safe. We are losing MANY lives in afghanistan. People are dying because of this administration. People are dead because no-one was guarding the embassy ON "BINGOS" WATCH! I can't trust this guy.....

The problem is greedy, inept public servants.

Native
Native

Idoknow. I know this thread is about teaching but come on...

George W. Bush, President, January 20, 2001-January 20, 2009

September 11, 2001

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